Pitlord

rain of fire on lvl 7 is enough to kill creeps..

It's got a larger AOE circle, but shockwave damages a line - and units usually stand in a line. It's not stronger, it's harder to get a kill with it, and you can't nuke heroes with it. And since the only anti-hero ability he has on demand is howl (which nobody levels because otherwise you can't creep) he needs to be A LOT stronger in terms of stats, which he rarely is because rain of fire isn't that good. If you made it do the same damage as shockwave and deliver it in 1 wave you'd see such a difference. Would be pretty cool then too - like a meteor.

"rain of fire on lvl 7 is enough to kill creeps.." - "because rain of fire isn't that good"

we could discuss that all day long

imo its enough, seen pitlords having most creepkills, even in midgame

The exception that proves the rule eh? Rain of fire even at level 7 requires a hefty amount of luck to get the final kill, and All the while you're casting it you're vulnerable to interrupt, or even just being attacked.

check this replay out pitlord

I'm well aware of how to play pitlord, thanks very much, and I do so often. The problem is he is still naturally disadvantaged. The game isn't in such a state of imbalance that certain heroes are utterly useless, but he's still unfairly punished and weaker than a lot of other heroes.

Xoralundra wrote:I'm well aware of how to play pitlord, thanks very much, and I do so often. The problem is he is still naturally disadvantaged. The game isn't in such a state of imbalance that certain heroes are utterly useless, but he's still unfairly punished and weaker than a lot of other heroes.

u watched the replay?

its full of pros and pitlord gets fucking imba in the end

The exception does not prove the rule. Fact is everyone knows pitlord is weak in comparison to other heroes.

Fact is, rain of fire and cleave makes him a good creeper,
howl of terror kicks ass in lategame, 2 x doom with cripple, stun, (rain of fire), chaos dmg and dispell(!) (against am pots)
and lots of strength make him a nice tank.

It's up to Ace if he really wants to change something

Orc.Slayer wrote:Fact is, rain of fire and cleave makes him a good creeper,
howl of terror kicks ass in lategame, 2 x doom with cripple, stun, (rain of fire), chaos dmg and dispell(!) (against am pots)
and lots of strength make him a nice tank.

It's up to Ace if he really wants to change something

imo the spells are ok, can make his stats a bit better

rain of fire: ok, because if i increase it, noone would skill it at least to lvl7
howl: ok, as orc.slayer alrdy said it kicks ass in late-game. if get howl + cripple you deal almost no damage, its very terrible for enemies
splash: ok, if i would increase it, it would be even more imba in late-game
ulti: imo ok too, spells are gettin better with every 2nd lvl (lvl3, lvl5), adding more mov-speed to them would make them op because atm you just cripple an enemy and you have no problem to catch him up and stun him..

Rain of fire is weaker than shockwave, on a hero that is already weaker than TC.
Cripple doesn't reduce enemy damage.
Howl is 40% at max rank - which it is never at.
Cleave is worse than Rain of Fire and utterly useless until you have massive damage
The only problem with doom summons is how ridiculously easy they are to kill. First rank takes about 6 hits from a ranged hero with corruption orb.

For some reason you seem to assume he has all his spells all the time. If you rank Howl, he's no longer any good at creeping, and he's still bad vs heroes compared to say TC or Warden or Crypt Lord or Dreadlord or Death Knight or basically anyone else on his team.

TC and Dreadlord are also great creepers - but at the same time they are great vs heroes. Pitlord can only be mediocre at either, and not at the same time.

Xoralundra wrote:Rain of fire is weaker than shockwave, on a hero that is already weaker than TC.
Cripple doesn't reduce enemy damage.
Howl is 40% at max rank - which it is never at.
Cleave is worse than Rain of Fire and utterly useless until you have massive damage
The only problem with doom summons is how ridiculously easy they are to kill. First rank takes about 6 hits from a ranged hero with corruption orb.

For some reason you seem to assume he has all his spells all the time. If you rank Howl, he's no longer any good at creeping, and he's still bad vs heroes compared to say TC or Warden or Crypt Lord or Dreadlord or Death Knight or basically anyone else on his team.

TC and Dreadlord are also great creepers - but at the same time they are great vs heroes. Pitlord can only be mediocre at either, and not at the same time.

My advice to you is try to listen to what other people tell you and dont just dismiss it. We've given you plenty of explanations of how to make the pitlord an imba hero and you have completely ignored half of it.

Then why is he consistently voted a weak hero? You can't make him imba, you can make him competent. The only way he becomes imba is if the other team plays badly.

Xoralundra wrote:Then why is he consistently voted a weak hero? You can't make him imba, you can make him competent. The only way he becomes imba is if the other team plays badly.

Ridiculous... most of the votes on pl are from when he used to be very weak, he is a good hero in the latest versions, don't blame mappers if you fail to play as well as others with a particular hero. In the replay provided the other team didn't play badly at all it was a 5v5 all pro clan war and the other team played skillfully against the pitlord and still lost - i guess you didn't watch it.

Just because he is played by a good player doesn't make him a good hero. A bad guitarist can play a bad guitar and sound good, doesn't mean the guitar is OK.
Are you honestly going to tell me you think he's as good as TC? Or Warden? Or MK? Or DH? Or Dreadlord? Or Crypt Lord?
I can play pitlord - Very well too - but that doesn't change the fact that he's underpowered, I could play a whole host of heroes better, just because they ARE better. You seem to think he's a superior creeper, when in fact it's easier to get creep kills with herokillers like TC or Dreadlord.

What's your reaction when you see Pitlord on the other team? Is it "Oh dang, they got pitlord!" Or is it "Phew, free kill for us"?

And if DH or Bloodmage is on the other team you can just forget about rain of fire completely.

Xoralundra wrote:Then why is he consistently voted a weak hero? You can't make him imba, you can make him competent. The only way he becomes imba is if the other team plays badly.

most of the votes really old from even older version where he was really crap.

He is okay like he is now.

Ace won´t change him anyway so we can stop this pointless discussion now. ty.

And what's been changed since old version?
His size. That's it. Cleave is still too weak early on and too good end game, his doom summons still die in 5 seconds, and Rain of fire is still inferior to shockwave/carrion swarm

Xoralundra wrote:And what's been changed since old version?
His size. That's it. Cleave is still too weak early on and too good end game, his doom summons still die in 5 seconds, and Rain of fire is still inferior to shockwave/carrion swarm

pitlord rocks with rain of fire, let him play on 1 line he will kill all creeps - and ofc a fast cd
i dont understand ur problem..-> archmage got nearly the same spells as pitlord....ever seen a pitlord without rain of fire!? no...just stay back and do it and u get creepkills..and ofc early games most heroes are weak

And archmage is widely regarded as underpowered too. But at least he's ranged so he can creep without going into melee and getting devastated by any ranged hero smart enough to buy corruption orb at the start. He's also int based so he can level his auto attack and his blizzard uptime at the same time.

make his ulti an instant kill, id doesnt make sense having it make dps, its hard to play him as he is

motion_man wrote:make his ulti an instant kill, id doesnt make sense having it make dps, its hard to play him as he is

agree that^^

I dont think he is very hard to play especially now in new versions.
Of course alone he is good only against army but with other heroes, he is serious danger to enemy heroes as well.
Rain of fire and cleaving attack is very good against creeps and the howl with high lvl is cool (they hardly harm u...).
I dont like ulti tha way it is now. Perhaps the instant kill would be nice and more surpriseable but still in my count this ulti sucks and worths only 0,5 stun.


Can site admin start a new vote?
Perhaps now it would be different. A few version passed....

Instant kill and more armour on doom might make him OK, but cleave still sucks early on and then rapes armies later, and he still has poor stats compared to other heroes.

Xoralundra wrote:Instant kill and more armour on doom might make him OK, but cleave still sucks early on and then rapes armies later, and he still has poor stats compared to other heroes.

Perhaps make cleave like an orb effect/multishot that adds a small amount of damage to his attack but also allows him to attack extra units at once. I suggest:
Level 1 - +3 bonus damage and multishot on 1 extra unit
Level 2 - +6 bonus damage and multishot on 1 extra unit
Level 3 - +9 bonus damage and multishot on 2 extra units
Level 10 - +30 bonus damage and multishot on 5 extra units

Yeah cleave damage needs to be buffed, but the AOE nerfed. That way it will still be useful early on, instead of being entirely useless. At the moment the level 10 spell is able to hit ranged and melee at the same time.