Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Complexity wrote:
I really think if Cain gives you the map and the bot control, you will make such an unbalanced map. I mean seriously? One useless skill in late game and you are immediately inventing mana shield or brilliance aura?

If you mean level 10 unholy aura which gives 20 HP reg, it makes sense. People want something in return for the 10 skill points. Also Eddie, LICH IS JUST FINE.

He didn't nor i think he will, but if he did i will ask people for testing and then make the changes, like i said before, unfortunately you wasn't there to hear it.

EddieBG wrote:He didn't nor i think he will, but if he did i will ask people for testing and then make the changes, like i said before, unfortunately you wasn't there to hear it.

I admire the fact that you still have the motivation to make something out of this map, but some ideas of you are pretty scary. Brilliance aura at Lich.. geegee.

@ complexity : ok u don't like his idea(s) but plz stop to flame. u can give ur opinion but no more. i prefer people who try to improve this map instead of people like u who flame and doesn't play anymore...

Scylla wrote:@ complexity : ok u don't like his idea(s) but plz stop to flame. u can give ur opinion but no more. i prefer people who try to improve this map instead of people like u who flame and doesn't play anymore...

Perhaps it is time to understand what my comment meant, but it seems the lack of logical sense of you Scylla or maybe just understanding the English language I will spill it out. Yes, my post before was harsh and perhaps rude, but it was not my intention to offend him.

Complexity wrote:

Scylla wrote:@ complexity : ok u don't like his idea(s) but plz stop to flame. u can give ur opinion but no more. i prefer people who try to improve this map instead of people like u who flame and doesn't play anymore...

Perhaps it is time to understand what my comment meant, but it seems the lack of logical sense of you Scylla or maybe just understanding the English language I will spill it out. Yes, my post before was harsh and perhaps rude, but it was not my intention to offend him.

yeah cuz suffy has no own intention...   

to get back on some points :
tc/batman aura never was about mvt speed, but attackspeed check the datas, just like in classic.
Unholy/holy were, just like cain said, about the speed.

Earthquake is clearly not as good as tornado, even if its dmg on towers are higher (lame anyway..) and its slow is imba, tornado just dispell now thats crazy, no need to really touch eq nor its cd...

About arrows, is it just me or u wanna make 800 gold (frost orb) better than 10 points used on skill, either 60bonus skills points silly imho..
If u wanna see 10 points into arrows let it as it is, its fine, and ofc let it stack...

Sh we talk so many times about it, now comon his ulti is fucking awesome but got nerfed, and his LVL 6 ULTI is crazy but that 6 points into an ulti... it has to be worth it.
Druid ulti just good as it is, and as druid can move once casted dont increase cd, nor duration, mb range and aoe.

About lich exact same point of view as suffer. Darkritual got nerfed its fine as it is, plus that spell isnt relevant late game indd... so why bother.

Last thing about those 2 agis heroes, they arent much trouble but i think the alli one at least, should be buffed, he just sucks whole game.

borogal wrote:Darkritual got nerfed its fine as it is, plus that spell isnt relevant late game indd... so why bother.

So we both agree that this spell is a waste. This isn't shocking anyone that one particular hero has an useless spell ? Regardless of the others he have already even if they are all awesome. If not, well fine, that's just me then.

borogal wrote:Last thing about those 2 agis heroes, they arent much trouble but i think the alli one at least, should be buffed, he just sucks whole game.

What agi are you talking about ? Last i talked was DH and axemaster and they are anything but sucky so you confused me here ;D

Also i do agree that tornado > earthquake because of the dispel and tp break that a tornado can give.

borogal wrote:to get back on some points :
tc/batman aura never was about mvt speed, but attackspeed check the datas, just like in classic.
Unholy/holy were, just like cain said, about the speed.

Still, TC/Batman's aura give a nice bonus speed. When you have batman + arthas/TC + DK with both aura max, you're fast as hell.

Problem is people are so sceptical to any new abilities. And it never agrees with new or changed abilities. I know now why Cain don't make any new spells, there will be always people like suffer who will say this ability is so overpowered and simple deny them, even while he don't play the map for over 2-3 months ...

PanStyle wrote:

borogal wrote:Darkritual got nerfed its fine as it is, plus that spell isnt relevant late game indd... so why bother.

So we both agree that this spell is a waste. This isn't shocking anyone that one particular hero has an useless spell ? Regardless of the others he have already even if they are all awesome. If not, well fine, that's just me then.

other spell are useless in late game : mana spell of alchimist, frost armor of lich (I remember I died fastly vs wd who wasn't slow by my frost armor...), wolves of farseer (very weak) or his spell which manaburn), phenix of bm which are weak too... and lich have good spell so it's good imo^^.

I thk the big problem of hna is STUNS cuz in all CW, clan choose only stun heroes... so we always see tc/batman, tinker, mk,, bellu/cl, dl, kotg... cuz stuns are too imba compared to aura for example. But I don't know how change that -_-

PanStyle wrote:

borogal wrote:Last thing about those 2 agis heroes, they arent much trouble but i think the alli one at least, should be buffed, he just sucks whole game.

What agi are you talking about ? Last i talked was DH and axemaster and they are anything but sucky so you confused me here ;D

he speaks about new agi imo. but I thk it's a good heroe in late game.

Abilities being weaker because armor reduce dmg taken and lots of hp tomes cause them to be useless. Well there is one way, but like i said people will act like suffer(read previous post). Solution Add % x hero primary. Example like Map Guilds of Hyppos. Any spell of heroes raise depends on his primary stats. As for heals - more strength = greater heal. More intelligence - more spell damage. Makes sence but requires a lot of work with JASS codes. When this is done. Abilities won't be weaker anymore. But problem is while each team got advantage with stats their abilities will deal greater amount of damage. Examples 1 level of ability will grants 0.1% of hero primary based stats, while level 10 will grants 1% of the base stats. This can be cool in Late game. But in early game while combo is unbalanced losing team might suffer due difference. At long game the player with highest primary stats will deal the highest dmg of his spells. Can make exception about Death and Decay/Crit/Bash/Pulverize. This might work for abilities like Nova/Waves/Heals/Storm Bolt/Fireball/War Stomp/Wind Walk/Phoenix Strike/Flame Strike/Chain Lightings/Volcano/ abilities that deal damage to enemy units or Heal friendly units and deal damage to enemy units(Holy Light/Death Coil). Its simple, just need a lot of effort to make it. Heals will increase value of healing due strength, spells that deal damage will increase value depend intelligence. So we can force people to buy a lot of strength and intelligence instead of on primary stats + agility. In order to not make op agility heroes spells their spells will require intelligence/strength(Rejuvenation/Immolation/Mana Burn/Shadow Strike etc.). Then intelligence heroes won't be useless. like Nether Mage late game vs Dh(if hes good and had hudge boost of agility). I also would like to set Jass Trigger about damage/healing numbers, that shows how much damage or healing each hero causes. Also decrease expirience rate while hero is creeping alone. You all know how hard is to fight an enemy who is 6-7 levels above your character.

EddieBG wrote:Abilities being weaker because armor reduce dmg taken and lots of hp tomes cause them to be useless. Well there is one way, but like i said people will act like suffer(read previous post). Solution Add % x hero primary. Example like Map Guilds of Hyppos. Any spell of heroes raise depends on his primary stats. As for heals - more strength = greater heal. More intelligence - more spell damage. Makes sence but requires a lot of work with JASS codes. When this is done. Abilities won't be weaker anymore. But problem is while each team got advantage with stats their abilities will deal greater amount of damage. Examples 1 level of ability will grants 0.1% of hero primary based stats, while level 10 will grants 1% of the base stats. This can be cool in Late game. But in early game while combo is unbalanced losing team might suffer due difference. At long game the player with highest primary stats will deal the highest dmg of his spells. Can make exception about Death and Decay/Crit/Bash/Pulverize. This might work for abilities like Nova/Waves/Heals/Storm Bolt/Fireball/War Stomp/Wind Walk/Phoenix Strike/Flame Strike/Chain Lightings/Volcano/ abilities that deal damage to enemy units or Heal friendly units and deal damage to enemy units(Holy Light/Death Coil). Its simple, just need a lot of effort to make it. Heals will increase value of healing due strength, spells that deal damage will increase value depend intelligence. So we can force people to buy a lot of strength and intelligence instead of on primary stats + agility. In order to not make op agility heroes spells their spells will require intelligence/strength(Rejuvenation/Immolation/Mana Burn/Shadow Strike etc.). Then intelligence heroes won't be useless. like Nether Mage late game vs Dh(if hes good and had hudge boost of agility). I also would like to set Jass Trigger about damage/healing numbers, that shows how much damage or healing each hero causes. Also decrease expirience rate while hero is creeping alone. You all know how hard is to fight an enemy who is 6-7 levels above your character.

yes, it could be interesting. but it will be hard to balance all that... and also, as people leave dope hna little by little, is it interesting to do that if nobody play ? because it's a lot of work  

well about lich it  was my fail. But you talk come with good ideas, did you read previous post? I feel that you will also say that this would be fail. So if u have better idea why don't u post them? Maybe because you can't produce any, and its more easy for you to critic like always. But i'm happy few of my ideas takes place in the map, which none of yours has ben added to the map. Oh wait you don't any ideas. End of story. Post some better ideas if you have. Imo all laming ulties like Stampede/Earth'Quake/Tornado/Resurrection/Animate Dead/ should be replaced with new abilities.

EddieBG wrote:well about lich it  was my fail. But you talk come with good ideas, did you read previous post? I feel that you will also say that this would be fail. So if u have better idea why don't u post them? Maybe because you can't produce any, and its more easy for you to critic like always. But i'm happy few of my ideas takes place in the map, which none of yours has ben added to the map. Oh wait you don't any ideas. End of story. Post some better ideas if you have.

Yet again you talk nonsense. It was my idea to make the creep system automatic and remove the possibility to recruit them from the tavern. We talked about it in Dope channel long time ago. Cain and the others implanted it and worked out the details.

Further, if you want to become a mapmaker of any map you need to learn how to argue and take criticism. You take it way too personal.

yeah sorry pan didnt mention : not dh axe, but pyhton and ninja (?), python is good (still hard to click) but ninja just sucks, i mean compare to all toher agis, specially to pythin since he was made to balance it cleave is just so much stronger than vampiric. Of ctc/bat gives speed as well, but mostly attack speed

Suff arguement is actualy valid isnt ?
How ever i do agree with u as well eddie, its really hard to create a new spell that fits into this game without being called imba or useless
(And i know i complain as well )

Finger of Death should be fixed(it can be casted to a hero who is under effect of Anti-Magic potion). Reduce Flame Strike dmg, it cause so much dmg.

EddieBG wrote:Finger of Death should be fixed(it can be casted to a hero who is under effect of Anti-Magic potion). Reduce Flame Strike dmg, it cause so much dmg.

yeah it can be casted but makes no dmg, so why fix it?? and to flame strike..... it makes at lvl 10 less dmg than a wave lvl 10.... so why reduce??? with wave u can kill an hero much easier but with flamestrike..... heavy if he not stunned

Metallbrecher wrote:

EddieBG wrote:Finger of Death should be fixed(it can be casted to a hero who is under effect of Anti-Magic potion). Reduce Flame Strike dmg, it cause so much dmg.

yeah it can be casted but makes no dmg, so why fix it?? and to flame strike..... it makes at lvl 10 less dmg than a wave lvl 10.... so why reduce??? with wave u can kill an hero much easier but with flamestrike..... heavy if he not stunned

flame strike can kill all creep on a line, but any wave can do that... I believe^^, no ?

Scylla wrote:

Metallbrecher wrote:

EddieBG wrote:Finger of Death should be fixed(it can be casted to a hero who is under effect of Anti-Magic potion). Reduce Flame Strike dmg, it cause so much dmg.

yeah it can be casted but makes no dmg, so why fix it?? and to flame strike..... it makes at lvl 10 less dmg than a wave lvl 10.... so why reduce??? with wave u can kill an hero much easier but with flamestrike..... heavy if he not stunned

flame strike can kill all creep on a line, but any wave can do that... I believe^^, no ?

wave is much more powerful than flamestrike.... its is only in little space and wave can dmg even in rly late game (around lvl 40-...) pushing creeps hard.... flamestrike kills maybe a few but rest arent harmed..... just with 2 waves u can kill nearly 20-30 creeps at once if used good.... flamestrike 5-7?? xd

Metallbrecher wrote:just with 2 waves u can kill nearly 20-30 creeps

oh really ?? and with 5 waves u have already got 100 creeps ? i'm reading so much bullshits xdddd

yugan wrote:

Metallbrecher wrote:just with 2 waves u can kill nearly 20-30 creeps

oh really ?? :Dand with 5 waves u have already got 100 creeps ? :Di'm reading so much bullshits xdddd

dude... u cannot kill more creeps than as much are here.... so learn maths..... that is not direkt proportional.... nap

i will learn maths ok, meanwhile u should learn play

I would like to see this hero in hna. Its called Anduin Lothar. Image might not look that cool at close, but those of you who played Arathi Campaign and completed chapter four, the next chapter is called history, there is an epic battle which player control the Mighty Anduin Lothar(Don't know who he is?). I think this can be perfect for new hero, check the picture: 



P.S Heroes should have wc3 history names not old inactive hna players(all their glory will be remembered for few of us who play this map for long, in addition u could make memorial about classic old players   More updates more fun and brings more people), also Cain change batman sound. I don't like him saying every time For The Horde while hes Alliance Hero .... its so annoying.

EddieBG wrote:change batman sound. I don't like him saying every time For The Horde while hes Alliance Hero .... its so annoying.[/color]

Haha yea.. >.<

Ps. This model looks a bit too "medieval" maybe? xDBut it's jut my opinion.. We need some fresh stuff in hna so ^^... And don't change the names of the players it's nice as it is they deserved it  !

EddieBG wrote:I would like to see this hero in hna. Its called Anduin Lothar.

Its Ylt actually XD