Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post here your ideas about balancing heroes stats and abilities.
To my point of view.
1.Alliance Ranger's/Dark Ranger. Silence at level 4 duratation is 10.5 seconds. Level 5 - 9 seconds.
2.Abomination Hudge Hp boost must be reduced since it has strength bonus. I'm sure that tinker doesn't have the exact amount of hp like Abomination even if they both have exact stats. Longer game abomination have to much Health, it must be reduced.
3. Alchemist Damage Per Second(DPS) - The value should like 10-15 or 10-20. Example 100-105 or 100-110 dmg(I think all heroes must have the exact DPS values).
4.Far Seer's Volcano Area and Slow should not be above 80%. Example 1 Level - 50% slow. 2 Level - 55%. 3 Level - 60% 4 Level - 65%. 5 Level - 70%. 6 Level - 75 or 80% also if possible add attack speed reduction and reduce AoE and Cast Range should not be over 850-900 Area.
5. Shadow Hunter Big Bad Voodoo Area of Effect. Currently its 1000 AoE(Area of Effect)
6. Druid Ultimate - need increase duratation. It can't count as Big Bad Voodoo duratation should be at least 15 seconds.
7. Holy/Unholy Aura - Current Value is 2,65 which means 2,65 health regeneration at Level 10. It should be At least 5-6 Health Regeneration.
8. Lich's Death and Decay - Value at Level 6 is 12% of Health. Which means for 1000 hp your hero losess 120 of its health. No Matter how many health your hero have the value keeps rising. Example 10000 hp. Your hero Losses 1200 HP per second. I'm not sure about duratation but i think its over 20 seconds. Also reduce its AoE. It should not be castable at boss arena.
9.Poison Arrows/Frost Arrows - The value should not be over 35%. Imagine 200 intelligence + 140 agility + Ranged Allies with Slow Orb Example: Far Seer(orb of lighting/slow orb + Volcano) mooslty Holy Aura 15% speed is no match for that kind of slow movement.
10. Tauren Warrior Cairne Bloodhoof Pulverize/Critical Strike's - Should not be over 20-22%(Pulverize has 33%)
11. Dark Ranger's Vengeance - 100/200/300/400/500/600% Attack Speed and Move Speed. All the values are Over Powered. They should be like this. 1 Level - 50% Attack Speed, Movement Speed - 5%. 2 Level - 60% AS(Attack Speed), MS - 10%(Movement Speed). 3 Level - 70% AS, MS - 15%. 4 Level - 80% AS, MS - 20%. 5 Level 90% AS, MS - 25%. 6 Level - 100% AS, MS - 30% Reduce suffering Damage to 30% at level 6. You might think since your Dark Ranger is low level those values will make him weaker. 100% AS and 30% MS is enough with 200 Agility you can be still op depends on your stats.
12. Resurrection/Animate Dead - Replace them or make them vulnerable this will improve game without laming. If they are vulnerable and a player decide to lame by his ulty atleast they can be killed. Instead of waiting their hudge duratation.
13. Cleaving Attack - should not be over 30%. Trust me with a stats like 250+50 Stength and 130+30 agility creeps are no match for cleaving attack, and heroes loses 50% of their health while in close combat which is OP.
14. Dark Ritual - Replace it With Mana Pot. Same usage like Death Pact(original ability potion of health) and no longer sacrifise an unit
15. Banish - Need fix slow% should be like Far Seer's Volcano in order to make it balance.

That's the major bugs in Object Editor Data. There are still other bugs, but at the moment i don't remember them. Cain i hope you read this, and make action. If u lazy i or Pan or Azid can change the Object Data then we send you and you can upload the the bot, ONLY WHEN U AGREE WITH US. Make HnA fun once again.

I don't agree with points 6 - 8 - 9. Druid ultimate is just op already, it makes invulnerable the druid himself. Lich decay is nice how it is, antimagic pot is the easy answer to it, and i like to use it in bossfight; ok maybe this can be fixed. About frost arrows I don't think it should be less strong than frost orb, maybe do the slow effect not stackable with the orb; a nice change could be giving to the poison arrow the venom orb effect and slow values, just an idea. Anyway it is cool that you can work on this and you try to improve the map, nice work!

what about Big Bad Voodoo 1000 area for 30-40 sec? isn't that OP? and 4 seconds stun is need for Lich's ulty to kill an alliance hero. Its OP especialy its AoE it should be fixed at least to 8-9%. You don't get the point. I mean he shouldn't be able to use it to kill Alliance heroes outside. Ofc he can use it to get sword faster.

and what about dh(op evasion bugged and op ulti) ,mk(great skillz stun, claw epic slow,bash imba, awatar add 2 much hp and attack + armor cmon) ,potm(all know potm dmg...) and tinker(tinker stun is 2 op shhould have lower area and not so much dmg, and ulti same as mk) ?? +speed pot 2500gold. hp pots x2 more expensive. restricted and more expensive shacle and staffs could be nice
+balanced stuns.. all prefer plays with mass stuns then other combo... so somethink is wrong i think

u forget a little bug , u can't select that ugly hero of ally ( thx god) doing random, i'm talking about arthas or dunno how call him..the one with the aura and ulti which stun

EddieBG wrote:

rastafaraj wrote:and what about dh(op evasion bugged and op ulti) ,mk(great skillz stun, claw epic slow,bash imba, awatar add 2 much hp and attack + armor cmon) ,potm(all know potm dmg...) and tinker(tinker stun is 2 op shhould have lower area and not so much dmg, and ulti same as mk) ?? +speed pot 2500gold. hp pots x2 more expensive. restricted and more expensive shacle and staffs could be nice
+balanced stuns.. all prefer plays with mass stuns then other combo... so somethink is wrong i think

 ur post makes no sence. 800 hp isn't that much, but u worry about spell immunity isn't it? Bash isn't that imba 10% is ok, it depends on luck and attack speed. Could be nice idea if Alliance/Horde have exact same abilities. But don't think that only Horde should have Alliance heroes abilities like Mk/Tinker etc. Well Evasion 40% is op i agree, but you forget Grom Hellscream Splash by ulty which is more OP than Metamorphosis. It should be 30-35%. Cleaving Attack and Howl of Terror is more op than dh ulty, especialy Howl of Terror 50% 200 dmg of hero while casted hero losses 100 dmg which is unfair, also Pit Lord have great strength boost and late game could be trouble or even unkillable with sh and dk. About HP pots they are useless in my opinium. They should be available only for Intelligence Heroes who don't have heal. Potm is ok. Blood Lord is more dangerous than potm. Potm advantage is only his main stat Agility. Long ago i post a topic that Horde should have Tinker(since hes goblin is a part of the horde) and balancing Spell Immunity. Unfortunately all dissagree like they will dissagree again(i knew it)

Yugan about Arthas me and pan posted this bug and cain promise to fix it.

 Sry for Double posting. Though quote will be single post...

yeyeye eddie u prefer ally so u dont wanna balance them only horde so u can pwn more easy heheehe. u propably think only u are imba mk but its not true hahahha mk is just op. mk bash is 2 imba i think it should still be 10% bash but not dmg clap should be weaker and cmon avatar epic imba u can run 2 enemies alone and u will still own and no die spells uselles vs him so u cant stop him when he tp or smth... mk beat all heroes only dh can win with him dude mk>alch mk>tw mk>wd mk>pit mk>lich etc... he beat best horde heroes easy am i right? and with clap u no even need frost so u can enjoy with slow light or ...ganja

just focus him when he has ulti cd maybe?  

rastafaraj wrote:yeyeye eddie u prefer ally so u dont wanna balance them only horde so u can pwn more easy heheehe. u propably think only u are imba mk but its not true hahahha mk is just op. mk bash is 2 imba i think it should still be 10% bash but not dmg clap should be weaker and cmon avatar epic imba u can run 2 enemies alone and u will still own and no die spells uselles vs him so u cant stop him when he tp or smth...  mk beat all heroes only dh can win with him dude mk>alch mk>tw mk>wd  mk>pit mk>lich etc... he beat best horde heroes easy am i right? and with clap u no even need frost so u can enjoy with slow light or ...ganja

Last night we played 5 frogs vs 5 frogs Stifler was Mountain King and he got 7-8 deaths i kill him twise with Cairne while he got Avatar. Anyway we lost because of Priesters of The Moon. I never said that i'm imba with mk or any hero. I can think what i want but you will never know what i'm thinking. Mk is killable, just need good team thats all. I don't like Horde. At beginning they had so OP heroes and spells.

EddieBG wrote:

rastafaraj wrote:yeyeye eddie u prefer ally so u dont wanna balance them only horde so u can pwn more easy heheehe. u propably think only u are imba mk but its not true hahahha mk is just op. mk bash is 2 imba i think it should still be 10% bash but not dmg clap should be weaker and cmon avatar epic imba u can run 2 enemies alone and u will still own and no die spells uselles vs him so u cant stop him when he tp or smth...  mk beat all heroes only dh can win with him dude mk>alch mk>tw mk>wd  mk>pit mk>lich etc... he beat best horde heroes easy am i right? and with clap u no even need frost so u can enjoy with slow light or ...ganja

Last night we played 5 frogs vs 5 frogs Stifler was Mountain King and he got 7-8 deaths i kill him twise with Cairne while he got Avatar. Anyway we lost because of Priesters of The Moon. I never said that i'm imba with mk or any hero. I can think what i want but you will never know what i'm thinking. Mk is killable, just need good team thats all. I don't like Horde. At beginning they had so OP heroes and spells.

well if u dont want balance ally heroes dont plz touch this map will be better for all...

rastafaraj wrote:

EddieBG wrote:

rastafaraj wrote:yeyeye eddie u prefer ally so u dont wanna balance them only horde so u can pwn more easy heheehe. u propably think only u are imba mk but its not true hahahha mk is just op. mk bash is 2 imba i think it should still be 10% bash but not dmg clap should be weaker and cmon avatar epic imba u can run 2 enemies alone and u will still own and no die spells uselles vs him so u cant stop him when he tp or smth...  mk beat all heroes only dh can win with him dude mk>alch mk>tw mk>wd  mk>pit mk>lich etc... he beat best horde heroes easy am i right? and with clap u no even need frost so u can enjoy with slow light or ...ganja

Last night we played 5 frogs vs 5 frogs Stifler was Mountain King and he got 7-8 deaths i kill him twise with Cairne while he got Avatar. Anyway we lost because of Priesters of The Moon. I never said that i'm imba with mk or any hero. I can think what i want but you will never know what i'm thinking. Mk is killable, just need good team thats all. I don't like Horde. At beginning they had so OP heroes and spells.

well if u dont want balance ally heroes dont plz touch this map will be better for all...

I want a balance map. But u think that only alliance is OP horde is more OP since many years. Anyway i know what to do but, since i don't have access nothing can be changed until cain decide to do it.

EddieBG wrote:

rastafaraj wrote:

EddieBG wrote:

rastafaraj wrote:yeyeye eddie u prefer ally so u dont wanna balance them only horde so u can pwn more easy heheehe. u propably think only u are imba mk but its not true hahahha mk is just op. mk bash is 2 imba i think it should still be 10% bash but not dmg clap should be weaker and cmon avatar epic imba u can run 2 enemies alone and u will still own and no die spells uselles vs him so u cant stop him when he tp or smth...  mk beat all heroes only dh can win with him dude mk>alch mk>tw mk>wd  mk>pit mk>lich etc... he beat best horde heroes easy am i right? and with clap u no even need frost so u can enjoy with slow light or ...ganja

Last night we played 5 frogs vs 5 frogs Stifler was Mountain King and he got 7-8 deaths i kill him twise with Cairne while he got Avatar. Anyway we lost because of Priesters of The Moon. I never said that i'm imba with mk or any hero. I can think what i want but you will never know what i'm thinking. Mk is killable, just need good team thats all. I don't like Horde. At beginning they had so OP heroes and spells.

well if u dont want balance ally heroes dont plz touch this map will be better for all...

I want a balance map. But u think that only alliance is OP horde is more OP since many years. Anyway i know what to do but, since i don't have access nothing can be changed until cain decide to do it.

LOL i said some ally heroes are op and some horde but u want balance only horde its so retarded dont touch map if u want do like this..

btw i have good idea for new hero in horde its will be called: Poor Yugan (PY) and looks like sheep. Spells :(1)(aura) -10%movember speed per lvl, (2)(aura) -10% dmg per lvl (3) heal for ally heroes (ulti) call eddie for kill u

EddieBG wrote:
1.Alliance Ranger's/Dark Ranger. Silence at level 4 duratation is 10.5 seconds. Level 5 - 9 seconds.

Just a tooltip error.

EddieBG wrote:
2.Abomination Hudge Hp boost must be reduced since it has strength bonus. I'm sure that tinker doesn't have the exact amount of hp like Abomination even if they both have exact stats. Longer game abomination have to much Health, it must be reduced.

I reduced the hp slightly, it's not a big difference between them really.

EddieBG wrote:3. Alchemist Damage Per Second(DPS) - The value should like 10-15 or 10-20. Example 100-105 or 100-110 dmg(I think all heroes must have the exact DPS values).

When i played i can't really remember any sort of problems with Alchi.

EddieBG wrote:4.Far Seer's Volcano Area and Slow should not be above 80%. Example 1 Level - 50% slow. 2 Level - 55%. 3 Level - 60% 4 Level - 65%. 5 Level - 70%. 6 Level - 75 or 80% also if possible add attack speed reduction and reduce AoE and Cast Range should not be over 850-900 Area.

Volcano is totally fine, you want to nerf the volcano. But you want to keep tornado like it is?

EddieBG wrote:
5. Shadow Hunter Big Bad Voodoo Area of Effect. Currently its 1000 AoE(Area of Effect)


6. Druid Ultimate - need increase duratation. It can't count as Big Bad Voodoo duratation should be at least 15 seconds.

What about the voodoo?
And i think the druid ultimate is also very good.

EddieBG wrote:
7. Holy/Unholy Aura - Current Value is 2,65 which means 2,65 health regeneration at Level 10. It should be At least 5-6 Health Regeneration.

This is ability isn't really about the regen, it's more about the speed increase which you get
But fine, i'll increase it slightly.

EddieBG wrote:
8. Lich's Death and Decay - Value at Level 6 is 12% of Health. Which means for 1000 hp your hero losess 120 of its health. No Matter how many health your hero have the value keeps rising. Example 10000 hp. Your hero Losses 1200 HP per second. I'm not sure about duratation but i think its over 20 seconds. Also reduce its AoE. It should not be castable at boss arena.

Death and Decay is fine really, it's % which can be good and bad.
Besides you can just step away from it in the boss area, it's not that hard.

EddieBG wrote:
9.Poison Arrows/Frost Arrows - The value should not be over 35%. Imagine 200 intelligence + 140 agility + Ranged Allies with Slow Orb Example: Far Seer(orb of lighting/slow orb + Volcano) mooslty Holy Aura 15% speed is no match for that kind of slow movement.

It goes from 7-30% at the moment.

EddieBG wrote:
10. Tauren Warrior Cairne Bloodhoof Pulverize/Critical Strike's - Should not be over 20-22%(Pulverize has 33%)

Fine, changed to 24%.

EddieBG wrote:
11. Dark Ranger's Vengeance - 100/200/300/400/500/600% Attack Speed and Move Speed. All the values are Over Powered. They should be like this. 1 Level - 50% Attack Speed, Movement Speed - 5%. 2 Level - 60% AS(Attack Speed), MS - 10%(Movement Speed). 3 Level - 70% AS, MS - 15%. 4 Level - 80% AS, MS - 20%. 5 Level 90% AS, MS - 25%. 6 Level - 100% AS, MS - 30% Reduce suffering Damage to 30% at level 6. You might think since your Dark Ranger is low level those values will make him weaker. 100% AS and 30% MS is enough with 200 Agility you can be still op depends on your stats.

I think the ability is quite fine as she is very easy to kill while using it, anyway i decreased it a little.

EddieBG wrote:
12. Resurrection/Animate Dead - Replace them or make them vulnerable this will improve game without laming. If they are vulnerable and a player decide to lame by his ulty atleast they can be killed. Instead of waiting their hudge duratation.

They can be dispelled.

EddieBG wrote:
13. Cleaving Attack - should not be over 30%. Trust me with a stats like 250+50 Stength and 130+30 agility creeps are no match for cleaving attack, and heroes loses 50% of their health while in close combat which is OP.

I don't think it's that overpowered, but i decreased it from 40% - 31%.

EddieBG wrote:
14. Dark Ritual - Replace it With Mana Pot. Same usage like Death Pact(original ability potion of health) and no longer sacrifise an unit

I also think that this ability is fine.

EddieBG wrote:
15. Banish - Need fix slow% should be like Far Seer's Volcano in order to make it balance.

Banish isn't really a counter for volcano, Tornado is.
Banish is fine as it is imo.

EddieBG wrote: Drunken Haze 55% like curse is Op. I think abilities who grants % they should not be over 30-35%

Agreed, decreased Curse to 37%.
And Drunken haze to 28% because it also has a slow effect.

-gj

and ed... rly druid ulti is op as hell.... sh ulti is easy broken by mk bash... very easy

Thanks Cain. About Tornado i just miss it maybe increase cooldown at EarthQuake same as Tornado?

No, it isn't. But Tornado is far better as it kind of stuns at the same time and you can move it.

btw today we detected epic bug.... 2 guys wanted to swap their heroes in horde (cl and pit), they did and in fact 1 of them had both heroes and the other 0!!

and the "random bug" is still active.... if u random some heroes (we know to this time python,pit,nethermage,tauren warrior, druid, fl) u can still pick a SECOND hero which is also reviveable!!

Sad that i was on holiday when this thread came out, so much stuff i had to say.
So CARE, huge post incoming ! (and i probably forgot a lot of things anyway).
(btw i think the thread name should be "Balance discuss" to make it more clear/simple).

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:
1.Alliance Ranger's/Dark Ranger. Silence at level 4 duratation is 10.5 seconds. Level 5 - 9 seconds.

Just a tooltip error.

Nice (also good job spoting this eddie).
Also this reminds me, there is a "lag glitch" with ranger (don't know if it's fixable).
The very first cast, of the "multi shot arrow" makes the screen freeze for 2-3 seconds for the 10 players. While the screen freezes, the game still play, means that heroes creeps and other things still moves and attack. And it happend sometimes that some dies really early because of this.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:
5. Shadow Hunter Big Bad Voodoo Area of Effect. Currently its 1000 AoE(Area of Effect)
6. Druid Ultimate - need increase duratation. It can't count as Big Bad Voodoo duratation should be at least 15 seconds.

What about the voodoo?
And i think the druid ultimate is also very good.

I think Big Bad Voodoo area is too big on high levels and duration should be a bit shorter.
What is the duration on level 6 ? 40sec ?
Druid ultimate is good like this atm i think. Sometimes i think that sh's ulti is better but the fact that druid can save himself makes it balanced somehow.
Both ulti are just really good. Just imo, sh's one needs a slight nerf. Even if in some situation, the way druid can save people without getting caught is just imba...
We need more opinions about sh and druid guys (we have some already but we need more).

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:
7. Holy/Unholy Aura - Current Value is 2,65 which means 2,65 health regeneration at Level 10. It should be At least 5-6 Health Regeneration.

This is ability isn't really about the regen, it's more about the speed increase which you get
But fine, i'll increase it slightly.

Thanks for this also. We discussed quite a lot about this aura (and other stuff) with eddie.
My opinion was that we already have an aura for speed (TC or Batman for alliance) and that this aura should be more about hp regen. It would be an other way to help mates in game even when you can't heal them (dk can't heal blademaster or farseer for exemple).
My main problem with this aura being about speed is that horde had TC + DK and with double aura, you "can't touch this". But since Arthas is randomable now and that he have dk's aura, i think that's ok.
Also to finish, in my opinion, hp regen should be way higher than 5 or 6. Tauren Chief/Batman gives a really nice attack speed bonus, both of their aura effect are really good. dk's aura is only about speed atm.
I would say that 20/hp sec at lv10 aura would be ok. Right now, you think it's imba but IF dk have aura lv10, all players are around lv25-30 and damages are way above 100 per heroes so it's not like aura will be imba but at least it will worth to skill it and not only for movement speed.
BUT we can't go from 2.65hp to 20hp especially with all those recent changes, we have to test little by little. I'll try with the new fix (5-6hp) but i don't think it'll make a difference. We have to test with 10hp/sec at lv10 (+1hp per aura level) soon imo to see how it goes.
Also last point, DK is like horde's pala. And pala aura, even if it gives only one effect, it's a damn good one (like +14 armor at lv10 ?) so a few hp/sec on dk's aura should be ok (and arthas).

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:
8. Lich's Death and Decay - Value at Level 6 is 12% of Health. Which means for 1000 hp your hero losess 120 of its health. No Matter how many health your hero have the value keeps rising. Example 10000 hp. Your hero Losses 1200 HP per second. I'm not sure about duratation but i think its over 20 seconds. Also reduce its AoE. It should not be castable at boss arena.

Death and Decay is fine really, it's % which can be good and bad.
Besides you can just step away from it in the boss area, it's not that hard.

I don't always agree with Eddie but i have to join him on this point.
Lich's ulti can be game breaker. Even if it's one of my favorite hero since years, i think lich needs a slight nerf.
There is no other ulti that can do as much damages as this one.
Aslo, because HnA is a lot about stuns this makes this ulti even stronger.
If you have like 2 good stunners and lich you can go from full hp to 0 even if you have 5-6k hp. Just because of chain stun while ulti deals -12% hp /sec. And sometimes, you don't even need stuns ; creep block, hero block, summon block, peon block, ect.
I think, dmg per levels should be : 6%(lv1) - 6% - 7% - 7% - 8% - 9%(lv6)
9% is still huge imo so that should be good.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:14. Dark Ritual - Replace it With Mana Pot. Same usage like Death Pact(original ability potion of health) and no longer sacrifise an unit

I also think that this ability is fine.

Second point is Dark Ritual.
We need to do something about this spell to make it usefull in late game.
I don't know how you guys play lich but usually i skill this lv2 when i'm level 4 and never skill it again. I even reskill it around lv25 to get extra levels on frost armor or stats.
Lich doesn't have any problems with mana on late game so this spell is really useless.
I was thinking about a different spell around mana or hp but i don't found anything not imba or too close to some other spells in game like manaburn/dark pact/naga' mana shield.

I have maybe an idea but that's a new spell in HnA. It would be like when you cast silence (so an aoe with range) but the effect would be : burn mana in the area (no damage, stun or silence).
I took my inspiration from the EMP for StarCraft II : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/EMP_Round and the wisp detonation from WarCraft III + brainstormed about values to make it interesting for HnA, imo.
So here is what i suggest :

Name : Mana detonation
Cast type : Area of effect casted with range, instant cast (like silence).
Notes : AoE should be small and increase every level but still be small to force less cast but good ones and not spam like some spells.
Also, cooldown should be huge. To not kill the game or all fights and to force better decision from the lich player.
Effect : Destroy an amout of mana in the area (does 0 hp damage).
Bonus effect : Reveal invisible units that got hit by the spell for a short time.


I think this would give a new interesting dynamic to the game and to the lich gameplay.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:
10. Tauren Warrior Cairne Bloodhoof Pulverize/Critical Strike's - Should not be over 20-22%(Pulverize has 33%)

Fine, changed to 24%.

That's a nice fix imo.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:
11. Dark Ranger's Vengeance - 100/200/300/400/500/600% Attack Speed and Move Speed. All the values are Over Powered. They should be like this. 1 Level - 50% Attack Speed, Movement Speed - 5%. 2 Level - 60% AS(Attack Speed), MS - 10%(Movement Speed). 3 Level - 70% AS, MS - 15%. 4 Level - 80% AS, MS - 20%. 5 Level 90% AS, MS - 25%. 6 Level - 100% AS, MS - 30% Reduce suffering Damage to 30% at level 6. You might think since your Dark Ranger is low level those values will make him weaker. 100% AS and 30% MS is enough with 200 Agility you can be still op depends on your stats.

I think the ability is quite fine as she is very easy to kill while using it, anyway i decreased it a little.

Didn't had time to go late game yesterday so we need more test about this but i have the feeling that the nerf is too huge. Then again, we have to test this, i hope tonight.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:12. Resurrection/Animate Dead - Replace them or make them vulnerable this will improve game without laming. If they are vulnerable and a player decide to lame by his ulty atleast they can be killed. Instead of waiting their hudge duratation.

They can be dispelled.

They can but most of the time they doesn't die to dispel staff (knights and some other have too much hp). Best fix would be that dispel does double damage to those invunarable units but don't know if it's easy to do :/
Also i don't think that the duration is that huge eddie. But that's sad that 2/3 of the players use them to kill towers intead of prevent ennemies to creep.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:13. Cleaving Attack - should not be over 30%. Trust me with a stats like 250+50 Stength and 130+30 agility creeps are no match for cleaving attack, and heroes loses 50% of their health while in close combat which is OP.

I don't think it's that overpowered, but i decreased it from 40% - 31%.

I also think that it's a good nerf.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote:15. Banish - Need fix slow% should be like Far Seer's Volcano in order to make it balance.

Banish isn't really a counter for volcano, Tornado is.
Banish is fine as it is imo.

I think we don't need to touch at banish atm.
Too many players miss-use it anyway and make their mates dies or fail a kill. We need more "banish play" (like i call them) to see if we need some little nerf, buff or nothing.

Cain wrote:

EddieBG wrote: Drunken Haze 55% like curse is Op. I think abilities who grants % they should not be over 30-35%

Agreed, decreased Curse to 37%.
And Drunken haze to 28% because it also has a slow effect.

I agree there too.

An other thing that i have in mind is DemonHunter's and AxeMaster's immolation.
That's a very good spell and imo, it should cost WAY MORE mana per seconds (like 3 times more the actual draining).
It would make the spell more balanced and will force the user to use his brain -> not let autocast the entire game and use it on proper time.
I'll post precise vallues if i need to be more accurate.

Hope you guys liked what you read and that we can discuss about this and other stuff.
I hope more people will post there, and no troll or flame (there is already a million threads with this). It's a serious thread to keep improving HnA and enjoy the game. So let's talk about the game :)

PanStyle wrote:Second point is Dark Ritual.
We need to do something about this spell to make it usefull in late game.
I don't know how you guys play lich but usually i skill this lv2 when i'm level 4 and never skill it again. I even reskill it around lv25 to get extra levels on frost armor or stats.
Lich doesn't have any problems with mana on late game so this spell is really useless.
I was thinking about a different spell around mana or hp but i don't found anything not imba or too close to some other spells in game like manaburn/dark pact/naga' mana shield.

I have maybe an idea but that's a new spell in HnA. It would be like when you cast silence (so an aoe with range) but the effect would be : burn mana in the area (no damage, stun or silence).
I took my inspiration from the EMP for StarCraft II : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/EMP_Round and the wisp detonation from WarCraft III + brainstormed about values to make it interesting for HnA, imo.
So here is what i suggest :

Name : Mana detonation
Cast type : Area of effect casted with range, instant cast (like silence).
Notes : AoE should be small and increase every level but still be small to force less cast but good ones and not spam like some spells.
Also, cooldown should be huge. To not kill the game or all fights and to force better decision from the lich player.
Effect : Destroy an amout of mana in the area (does 0 hp damage).
Bonus effect : Reveal invisible units that got hit by the spell for a short time.


I think this would give a new interesting dynamic to the game and to the lich gameplay.

I think your new spell creates more problem than it solves. Nova, mana burn AOE, Frost Armor and the devastating death and decay. That's just overdoing it. For the sake of balance it's better to not invent this new spell at Lich. Lich is fine as it is. In my opinion Lich is the most strongest offensive int hero in the whole game.

I think you have a point there, that might be overkill to put a mana detonation on the actual Lich that we have at the moment. But i still keep my point about that it would give more dynamics on the moves in game. If we had less stuns in game and more interesting spells such as banish, blink or mirror images kind of spell the game would be more interesting, imo. But that is an other topic i guess.

Complexity wrote:Lich is fine as it is. In my opinion Lich is the most strongest offensive int hero in the whole game.

Then again, because of D&D lich is imba. Even alone she can kill.
Attack target and slow it -> cast nova -> cast D&D. And frost armor to flee.
Dunno how you find Lich "fine" and the "strongest int in the game". But hey, we all have different opinions. That's why i also hope more people will post here.

Also, i would like to know what is your through about Dark Ritual. Because really, this spell... do you use it after 30min of game ?
And if you have ideas on how to change it to make it viable in late game that would be nice

Talking about Dark Ritual, is there some spells that you think are almost never used/skilled or under-used ?

EDIT : Feedback !
Farseer's spell. It's an arrow effect that deals mana damage but unlike the other arrows, we can't activate/desactivate it. So if you skill this, you can't play with orb. That's why a bunch of players doesn't bother skilling feedback. Cain can you change this and make this spell activable/desactivable ?

About Holy/Unholy Aura Regeneration it should be 9-10 hp. 20 hp per second is Op imagine Dk+Agi/Arthas+Dh could cause unkillable. 9 or 10 hp is ok. Also i like it when its now. Lich should have abilities like Brilliance Aura or something instead of Dark Ritual, but problem is that horde could have exact auras. And might cause a problem with mana shower. I think he need either mana shield or Brilliance Aura. Since no one skill it level 10. Depends on Naga's Mana Shield(Alliance)

EddieBG wrote:About Holy/Unholy Aura Regeneration it should be 9-10 hp. 20 hp per second is Op imagine Dk+Agi/Arthas+Dh could cause unkillable. 9 or 10 hp is ok. Also i like it when its now. Lich should have abilities like Brilliance Aura or something instead of Dark Ritual, but problem is that horde could have exact auras. And might cause a problem with mana shower. I think he need either mana shield or Brilliance Aura. Since no one skill it level 10. Depends on Naga's Mana Shield(Alliance)

I really think if Cain gives you the map and the bot control, you will make such an unbalanced map. I mean seriously? One useless skill in late game and you are immediately inventing mana shield or brilliance aura?

If you mean level 10 unholy aura which gives 20 HP reg, it makes sense. People want something in return for the 10 skill points. Also Eddie, LICH IS JUST FINE.

just to say thx a lot to eddie, panstyle and cain who try to improve the Dope map.
I thk some ideas are good and others bad, but all ideas are interesting to talk about it

I will post about my ideas when I will have time