Paladin

BushFire wrote:

u ever thought about that u just suck with paladin?

u DONT heal ur allies until lvl 15 ( only if they get into real trouble) and u for fuck sake dont de-heal the enemys ( only when they have real low hp). u just creep.( and thats fucking easy with ur shield ability and some claws.)
and theres nothing greedy in or sth. like this its just the game man get this into your mind. Pala can be really strong if u just creep enough.
end of discussion (for me)

I was talking generally, not about you, when I said "greedy and selfish".

And no, I dont suck with Paladin, maybe you who just overrate him when playing vs supernoobs?

Ofc you dont de-heal/dmg your enemy if its not very low hp/killing them, and no I dont heal allies much either. Still its not much mana, Paladin is a str hero, not a int hero. And also when you are melee and as you said "using ur shield" it goes even more mana for that.
So no its not "easy" to creepkill with Paladin.
And about "Paladin can be very strong", every hero can be very strong if enough creepkilling, its just that paladin is way weaker at doing that so its harder for him too get that strong.

bullshit but nvm.

btw i voted him balanced.

scooby-edit: stop flaming/spaming pls

It's funny that you say "your mana won't be enough to creep", Tenoziw. Just play 2 or 3 Sobi Masks and you can use holy light all the time....
You will be able to finish enough creeps, I played it often with some sobis and it was easy to keep up with the highest creepkills or even have the most creepkills.

And if you cant have the most (you will still have a lot), because the others are pros/have kubrik/skeleton warden etc., he still is a great support hero and almost cant die.

BushFire wrote:bullshit but nvm.

btw i voted him balanced.

Yes you talked bullshit thats why you could not / did not want to continue the disscussion.

scooby-edit: stop flaming/spaming pls

Orc.Slayer wrote:It's funny that you say "your mana won't be enough to creep", Tenoziw. Just play 2 or 3 Sobi Masks and you can use holy light all the time....
You will be able to finish enough creeps, I played it often with some sobis and it was easy to keep up with the highest creepkills or even have the most creepkills.

And if you cant have the most (you will still have a lot), because the others are pros/have kubrik/skeleton warden etc., he still is a great support hero and almost cant die.

Im aware of that, I myself, use 1-2 sobis and get creepkills by that.
He is still not a good creepkiller.

He is support hero true, but not a creep/hero killer, and almost cant die? I dont agree, but if you are "pro player" you can survive pretty easy yes.

Since the paladin seems to be a hero a lot of people don't agree on i'm just gona post my tips about playing the paladin and let you decide whether you want to use them.

Firstly as far as healing and holy light goes, i do heal my allies from the start, but only if they need it, in an all pro game they should be careful enough not to need it very often, but if you can help them get more xp then it is worth healing them a few times near the start. I do not, however, heal them unless they are 20% hp or less, since on this low hp they can be used to 'bait' the enemies over to your side of the map and draw attention away from your creeps. The rest of the time of course you need to be looking to kill tauren with your holy light but also grunts and sometimes head hunters if you are unable to target the tauren.

As far as the numbers of sobis go, i personally only take 1 sobi and i have plenty of mana considering that i am only healing my allies when they are 20% hp or less. Its very easy for the paladin to go back to base fast with his shield on (since he cant have frost of slow used on him) and tp back into the battle in a short space of time, regenerating his mana (however to be honest i can stay a long time creeping with just 1 sobi mask before i run out of mana).

I think 2 orbs are possible for the paladin. Either the corruption orb for obvious reasons that it helps you to creep, or the frost orb (if they have low hp agility or intelligence heroes). With the frost orb you must wait till these low hp heroes have around 35% hp and then activate divine shield, run up to them, if they see you and run then run back and creep, if they do not run they go for a hit, once you are slowing them you should be able to chase them down using the frost orb and finish them off with holy light if they are undead. If they are not undead, such as the sh, then providing his heal doesn't have cd, you should be able to chase finish them, if they get blocked but any creeps.
This strategy also goes well with gloves of haste, because you will have a better attack speed and be able to slow them more often. If the strategy isn't working for you then i advise putting the frost orb near the fountain and buying a corruption orb until you have a good enough attack speed to be effective at slowing.

The paladin is not the best creep or hero killer in the game, but he certainly isn't the worst. As long as you play him right you could end up with a good end game score.

J.P.P.P.P.P wrote:Since the paladin seems to be a hero a lot of people don't agree on i'm just gona post my tips about playing the paladin and let you decide whether you want to use them.

Firstly as far as healing and holy light goes, i do heal my allies from the start, but only if they need it, in an all pro game they should be careful enough not to need it very often, but if you can help them get more xp then it is worth healing them a few times near the start. I do not, however, heal them unless they are 20% hp or less, since on this low hp they can be used to 'bait' the enemies over to your side of the map and draw attention away from your creeps. The rest of the time of course you need to be looking to kill tauren with your holy light but also grunts and sometimes head hunters if you are unable to target the tauren.

As far as the numbers of sobis go, i personally only take 1 sobi and i have plenty of mana considering that i am only healing my allies when they are 20% hp or less. Its very easy for the paladin to go back to base fast with his shield on (since he cant have frost of slow used on him) and tp back into the battle in a short space of time, regenerating his mana (however to be honest i can stay a long time creeping with just 1 sobi mask before i run out of mana).

I think 2 orbs are possible for the paladin. Either the corruption orb for obvious reasons that it helps you to creep, or the frost orb (if they have low hp agility or intelligence heroes). With the frost orb you must wait till these low hp heroes have around 35% hp and then activate divine shield, run up to them, if they see you and run then run back and creep, if they do not run they go for a hit, once you are slowing them you should be able to chase them down using the frost orb and finish them off with holy light if they are undead. If they are not undead, such as the sh, then providing his heal doesn't have cd, you should be able to chase finish them, if they get blocked but any creeps.
This strategy also goes well with gloves of haste, because you will have a better attack speed and be able to slow them more often. If the strategy isn't working for you then i advise putting the frost orb near the fountain and buying a corruption orb until you have a good enough attack speed to be effective at slowing.

The paladin is not the best creep or hero killer in the game, but he certainly isn't the worst. As long as you play him right you could end up with a good end game score.

I play him kinda similar like you said.

Just one question which hero is worse then Paladin to kill Heroes AND Creeps?

Tenoziw wrote:
Just one question which hero is worse then Paladin to kill Heroes AND Creeps?

archmage, pitlord, archangel, archdemon, beastmaster and so on....

last game i played paladin ( i think around 1week ago) i was at gameend the one with most creepkills ( around 250)... i think that says enough and there were not only noobs( second and third one had around 200-230)

BushFire wrote:

Tenoziw wrote:
Just one question which hero is worse then Paladin to kill Heroes AND Creeps?

archmage, pitlord, archangel, archdemon, beastmaster and so on....

last game i played paladin ( i think around 1week ago) i was at gameend the one with most creepkills ( around 250)... i think that says enough and there were not only noobs( second and third one had around 200-230)

Both archangel and arch mage are two very good heroes to creep with.

BushFire wrote:

archmage, pitlord, archangel, archdemon, beastmaster and so on....

last game i played paladin ( i think around 1week ago) i was at gameend the one with most creepkills ( around 250)... i think that says enough and there were not only noobs( second and third one had around 200-230)

Archmage = lol no ^^

Pitlord = nah, close, buT rain if fire > Paladins heal (also PT got cleave)

Archangel = U JOKING???

Archdemon = isnt that same hero as arcangel?

Beastmaster = no no summons = good creepkilling

So only one that is close as bad as Paladin is pt but he is still better.


Bushfire about your game, gj, yes I also play Paladin pretty well but in pro game he will have least (or one of the least) creep/hero kills.

Cain wrote:Both archangel and arch mage are two very good heroes to creep with.

yes lol very very good.

Cain wrote:Both archangel and arch mage are two very good heroes to creep with.

am is crap if u have sh on other side.

aa cant creep if u focus him so...

pala can ALWAYS creep.

nvm i think we all should lay a game together and than we will see..

BushFire wrote:

Cain wrote:Both archangel and arch mage are two very good heroes to creep with.

am is crap if u have sh on other side.

aa cant creep if u focus him so...

pala can ALWAYS creep.

nvm i think we all should lay a game together and than we will see..

Shadow hunter? lol I dont agree, + you cant really say "this hero (AM) sucks creeping cause maybe this hero (SH) can be in the game"
Why is SH so good against him? hex? He still has good summons + AM can do blizzard when he is far away from SH and/or when hex is on cd.

Pala can't always creep. He can creep more often cause of shield but its nerfed and it has long cooldown.
And many players use to save it if you are near dying so you can escape without die.
And he cant heal himself, and he is melee. So I can't agree that he always can creep.

AA cant creep if focus? First, AA is a very good hero, strong and fast, and he has heal!
And second lol: NO hero can creep if they are target all the time.

this thread is ot about aa and i wont continue this discussion anyway.

pala is good as he is. need no fix ( except ulti)

i think good played paladin is way to strong...u can control the hole game with him and wont die with divine shield on lvl 1.

i think u should give him a other spell for divine shield.

maybe control magic....steal some summons.

vion wrote:i think good played paladin is way to strong...u can control the hole game with him and wont die with divine shield on lvl 1.

i think u should give him a other spell for divine shield.

maybe control magic....steal some summons.

lol i cant imagine pala without divineshield^^that wouldnt be pala anymore...what u talking about is to put a new heroe in the game^^if u take palas divineshield then he can only stay back and heal other heroes nothing else^^he would get the most borring heroe in game,even much more than shitlord or beastmaster...

then give him the same skill as dk has

sacrifice a unit to gain hp.....that would be balance!

u cannot let diviene shield in this game......there is no balance with a invu hero all the time.

Omg stop that

pala without divine shield...

i play some games, and i never see imba pala :1 stun and 1 silence =dead
and as he iisnt a big creeper, he cant hit quickly and hard at the same time (ofc late game more but compared to other heroes...)
And cooldown of lvl10 is so long....
i skill it only 1 to escap, not to kill and escap during 5 sec isnt imba

balance isnt make same hero each side.....

Couldnt agree more just play pala the right way.If you dont know how read some guides.

You can make paladin's resurrection change the ownership of the units, but you'd have to turn the real spell into a dummy, and then do it with triggers. It's not especially complex - you can do it in GUI quite reasonably - but is it worth it? Or is the DK clone sufficient?

I dont get your point @ this one xora ^^
do you want pala to have like an aoe of dark rangers original ultimate?

Pala is way too op now.
Too short shield cd, almost unkillable (i am not talking about 3 stuns in a row.... which is odd with random system).
With one ring he stays up all time, slowly but continuesly creep, end creeps and heroes with holy light... but u cannot kill him.
All he does is sometimes stay back and wait to regen in the ranger-row of battle....
Way too op imo.
And a very good supporter with his heal. Very biiiig range of spell and instant (! not like coil...) and good cd. With he on side u cant kill other heroes just with 2-3 stuns....

Pala is way too op now.
Too short shield cd, almost unkillable (i am not talking about 3 stuns in a row.... which is odd with random system).
With one ring he stays up all time, slowly but continuesly creep, end creeps and heroes with holy light... but u cannot kill him.
All he does is sometimes stay back and wait to regen in the ranger-row of battle....
Way too op imo.
And a very good supporter with his heal. Very biiiig range of spell and instant (! not like coil...) and good cd. With he on side u cant kill other heroes just with 2-3 stuns....

-staff of silence works fine, he either has to activate shield early and go back or he's going to die
-holy light can never creep as well as waves
-comparison to other heals: sh = multiple targets, kubi=aoe, deathknight has lower cd and can dmg every enemy hero and archdemon's heal
heals more hit points
-he is the only hero who can't target himself with his heal, which makes the divine shield balanced and on higher lvls the cd becomes veeeery
long (dk can't coil himself, but has death pact)

Imo aura is maybe a bit strong, vs 5-6 magic immune knights with more than 20 armor and 1300 hp it's a bit hard^^
but compare him e.g. to shadow hunter, hex= great stun, wards can creep and surround great, healing wave is uber annoying for enemies
and ulti saved many asses already

and that's how the balance is created, give both sides strong heroes
just my view on this

I got youre point but still i think lvl 1-2 (which i think is worth to level divine shield) cd is too low. I know the duration is low also but enough to get away.
Another thing: for which orc hero do you need staff of silence to kill? (And this staff has a great cd at beginning.. dunno exatly how much.)
With pala u need two items: ring of regen and sobi. With these and level 1-2 shield u survive till staff of silence (approx 30-40 min? level 10?) Sry i really dont know the cd of that. But still.
Too tough at beginning and with not-that-skilled partners u have no chance to kill him later as well (need good timing, precise teamwork, he has many hp, armor and partners....)

xionidas wrote:I got youre point but still i think lvl 1-2 (which i think is worth to level divine shield) cd is too low. I know the duration is low also but enough to get away.

only if his whole team is around, caught palas by just following or blocking (!)

Another thing: for which orc hero do you need staff of silence to kill? (And this staff has a great cd at beginning.. dunno exatly how much.)

skelewarden, blademaster, sometimes shadowhunter cause of heal and hex, tc/cl cause of aoe stun (I know you CAN catch them without, but same goes for pala)

With pala u need two items: ring of regen and sobi. With these and level 1-2 shield u survive till staff of silence (approx 30-40 min? level 10?) Sry i really dont know the cd of that. But still.

disagreed, pala won't be saved by ring. at least not vs me

Too tough at beginning and with not-that-skilled partners u have no chance to kill him later as well (need good timing, precise teamwork, he has many hp, armor and partners....)

Now that one can be used for almost every hero. HnA is a teamgame, and if your team isnt skilled, you won't win.

xionidas wrote:Pala is way too op now.
Too short shield cd, almost unkillable (i am not talking about 3 stuns in a row.... which is odd with random system).
With one ring he stays up all time, slowly but continuesly creep, end creeps and heroes with holy light... but u cannot kill him.
All he does is sometimes stay back and wait to regen in the ranger-row of battle....
Way too op imo.
And a very good supporter with his heal. Very biiiig range of spell and instant (! not like coil...) and good cd. With he on side u cant kill other heroes just with 2-3 stuns....

Huge dissagree, u know what mean op? Imo op is sth like axe or mk but not poor pala.

I don't like to play pala but I still think it's very good support, but he never become dmg dealer or sth like gamebreaker like bm or warden. Imo one of the most balanced hero, light - for h and creep, shield for escape and btw. what about shield's cd? I use shield just some times in game, when I'm trapped, or when I'm stunned and heroes are coming for me, just to escape so cd for me - doesn't matter: can be lower, or higher or like it is now, aura - dunno what's better: lv 3 aura and stats or maxed? Anyway nice aura ^^ Ulti - senceless for me, same like it was in older ver. Can't trap with it, can own towers, just good to annyoing. Rate: 0

Can't trap with it

we are talking about the same map?