comments about newest version

Ok, here is minor changes to be done:

- fight zone not working right some spells can go through
- linch ulty is too much dmg
- ax/dh ulty change maybe reduce hp increase on ulty
- think dmg aura are game changing in late game

imba.balvan wrote:- fight zone not working right some spells can go through

Do you mean laming with waves, death & decay, etc.? I'm OK with it:)

imba.balvan wrote:- think dmg aura are game changing in late game

???

Combo for Mega Random:

Alliance: Warden, kubrik(wizard), MK, barbarian, BATMAN
Horde: Warden, kubrik, beasty, tc, DreadLord

Aliance:BM,Archdruid,Tinker,Firelord,Arthas
Horde:BM,SH,Pitlord, Archibald,butcher

imba.balvan wrote:Combo for Mega Random:

Alliance: Warden, kubrik(wizard), MK, barbarian, BATMAN
Horde: Warden, kubrik, beasty, tc, DreadLord

haha, the only one? The problem with Mega Random is lack of multifarious combos.

If you can define, let's say, 10 combos, we'll bring Mega Random back.

ok, but 10 is too much, but i will make as much i can combos, where can i see all heroes on one place?

imba.balvan wrote:ok, but 10 is too much, but i will make as much i can combos, where can i see all heroes on one place?

Code:


    // Alliance
    local integer HERO_ARCHMAGE = 'Hamg'
    local integer HERO_HIGH_ELF = 'N00Q'
    local integer HERO_MK = 'Hmkg'
    local integer HERO_WIZARD = 'E005' // aka "Kubrik" on Alliance side
    local integer HERO_DH = 'Edem'
    local integer HERO_FL = 'Nfir'
    local integer HERO_POTM = 'Emoo'
    local integer HERO_BATMAN = 'H00I'
    local integer HERO_KOTG = 'Ekee'
    local integer HERO_CLASSIC_WD = 'Ewar'
    local integer HERO_TINKER = 'Ntin'
    local integer HERO_PALA = 'Hpal'
    local integer HERO_PANDA_BREWMASTER = 'Npbm'
    local integer HERO_PANDA_BM = 'O00R'
    local integer HERO_NAGA_SEA_WITCH = 'Nngs'
    local integer HERO_BLOOD_MAGE = 'Hblm'
    local integer HERO_STEALTHVIPER = 'N00W'
    local integer HERO_ARCHDRUID = 'O01D'
    local integer HERO_BARBARIAN = 'H013'
    local integer HERO_RANGER = 'N01I'
    local integer HERO_ARTHAS = 'H01G'
    local integer HERO_SAMURAI = 'E018'

    // Horde
    local integer HERO_DL = 'Udre'
    local integer HERO_PL = 'Nplh'
    local integer HERO_GRIM_REAPER = 'N00P'
    local integer HERO_KUBRIK = 'E00F' // aka "Prime Matron", "Kubi"
    local integer HERO_BEASTMASTER = 'Nbst'
    local integer HERO_BLOODLORD = 'N012'
    local integer HERO_DK = 'Udea'
    local integer HERO_DARK_RANGER = 'Nbrn'
    local integer HERO_TC = 'Otch'
    local integer HERO_CL = 'Ucrl'
    local integer HERO_SH = 'Oshd'
    local integer HERO_SKELETON_WD = 'E00B'
    local integer HERO_ALCHEMIST = 'Nalc'
    local integer HERO_CLASSIC_BM = 'Obla'
    local integer HERO_LICH = 'Ulic'
    local integer HERO_FARSEER = 'Ofar'
    local integer HERO_AXEMASTER = 'Ogrh'
    local integer HERO_ARCHIMONDE = 'N014'
    local integer HERO_NETHERMAGE = 'N01H'
    local integer HERO_TAUREN_WARRIOR = 'O01M'
    local integer HERO_CLOWN_ABO = 'N026'
    local integer HERO_PYTHON = 'O01N'

Previous combos in 3.04d:

Code:

    //
    // Setup predefined combo matrix
    //

    //
    // No healers
    //

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_PANDA_BM)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_KOTG)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_TINKER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BATMAN)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_BARBARIAN)

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_CLASSIC_BM)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_CL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_TC)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_PL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_LICH)

    set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1

    //
    // Stunners party with powerful healers
    //

    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_ARCHDRUID)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_TINKER)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_MK)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BATMAN)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_BARBARIAN)

    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_SH)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_BEASTMASTER)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_TC)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_PL)
    // call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_CL)

    // set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1

    //
    // Stunners party with regular healers
    //

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_WIZARD)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_TINKER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_MK)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BATMAN)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_BARBARIAN)

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_KUBRIK)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_DL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_TC)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_PL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_CL)

    set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1

    //
    //
    //

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_RANGER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_TINKER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_MK)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BATMAN)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_KOTG)

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_NETHERMAGE)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_DL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_TC)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_LICH)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_CL)

    set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1

    //
    //
    //

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_PANDA_BREWMASTER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_KOTG)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_RANGER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BARBARIAN)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_DH)

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_AXEMASTER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_DL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_DARK_RANGER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_LICH)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_CL)

    set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1


    //
    //
    //

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_ARTHAS)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_STEALTHVIPER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_ARCHDRUID)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BLOOD_MAGE)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_FL)

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_ALCHEMIST)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_PL)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_SH)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_ARCHIMONDE)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_CL)

    set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1


    //
    //
    //

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  1, HERO_POTM)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  2, HERO_PALA)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  3, HERO_TINKER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  4, HERO_BATMAN)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  5, HERO_PANDA_BREWMASTER)

    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  6, HERO_DARK_RANGER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  7, HERO_BEASTMASTER)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  8, HERO_TC)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex,  9, HERO_ALCHEMIST)
    call SaveInteger(comboHash, comboIndex, 10, HERO_DK)

    set comboIndex = comboIndex + 1

Here is 7 Combos, you can add your combos, so we will have at last 10.


For the win.

Do you think that 4th combo is balanced? 3 stunners vs 1.

yes, there are too much heals in combo maybe change arthas with panda?

They way of balance is start fix old pathetic hero unbalance. Remember when the combo for horde was op and for alliance as well. All thanks to lazyness and dissagreemed that this map needs fixes. However check my noob terrain art. It might be good game when i finish alliance side too. First need change the look of the visual environment then move on object editor & trigger editor. Middle will be awesome for gankig  
Mega Random will make only things worse because you will have unbalanced heroes that needeed fixes. This voting trigger is a really dumb. As well as mega random mode. I'm sure most of remaining alive players agreed that -random was better. You get random hero if u want combo u could pick. Vote for all random brings u unbalanced combo and no one can pick

P.S Mine version will be better than J.P's  Thanks for the map rigths

EddieBG wrote:They way of balance is start fix old pathetic hero unbalance.

Given these new trees on the map's borders game will be way balanced and fascinating.  

EddieBG wrote:P.S Mine version will be better than J.P's 

Sure, your map must be better than non-existent one.

Today just finished Horde side. Tested boss area with lich ultimate its nearly impossible to help your allies with it. I will do the same for alliance boss area. About the trees they are indestructible so any flame strike and stuff like that wont cut the trees. As I said before first need do things good like open middle make environment good, before moving on object editor and trigger editor.

Today i finaly finished alliance side too. there is the screen shots. I hope you like it.






P.S For those critics that can say terrain isn't high quality. Well sorry but i'm not a hiveworkshop terrain editor with awesome resourcess. That stuff was me keep in mind that this terrain edition is made by a noob(Me). Soon I will announce changes and other stuff in triggers and object editor.

Hey guys, long time no see. I wanted to say hi and a few things also.

First of all it's great to see that there is still some players, discutions about balance and changes in the current HnA + Eddie working on a new one.
I have plenty of things to say about this actually.

Eddie, do you want this to be an HnA 4.0 (current is 3.0x) or a NEW Heroes and Armies ?
Since you're doing a new map why not change some stuff in HnA to make it more exciting with new game dynamics, new gameplay and new items ?

Because when i look your map at the moment (i like the estetics of it btw) it is, for me, still the exact same HnA.
- > 2 lines
- > nothing in middle (could be a other line, a neutral place where to fight, some boss)
- > nothing new on the top and bottom sides either (the "dark place" at night is a bit bigger, it won't make a huge difference in the obvious "ganking" at night)
Since the map doesn't change you can't really change the dynamics of the game.
You and many other people (including me) had criticized HnA many times. Saying "This is nice, this is bad, this should be here, this should not, ect." but if you doesn't change the map layout, you can't force a change in gameplay.

We all, more or less, have different ideas about what a good HnA would look like. But we can all (or most of them) agree that if games like DotA2, LoL and so on are more popular it's also because of their gameplay. LoL relies a lot about skillshots : using a skill that will not work 100%, unlike any targetable skill (for exemple the bolt from MK is targetable and won't miss unless antimagic is used. Volcano is more a skill shot type of skill). It's way more exciting to have a lot of skillshots than just a few. How many times in HnA you say thanks to your mate when he did a good volcano to save you or used DL ult to start a fight. It's more exciting because you can miss it, people can dodge it, you can fake when you throw your spell, ect. Same things apply in DotA2 also : you have a lot of spells that have low or mid aoe but when you can't target anyone, you have to cast it well (+ the cast time can be low or not).
In DotA and LoL you have roles, in HnA, well... you're forced to one or two roles : a healer will be forced to support and a hero like panda will be forced to carry. Well guess what, in DotA you can have a int hard carry the game and a huge disabler with stuns as a support.
In HnA this is not really possible because of the skills that the hero have. Also, the map layout force you to play one way and that's it.
I can count of my hand the number of games where someone surprised me with his build + playstyle because you have no space nor items to do this.

Maybe it's time to change things, the number of players that left the game tells a lot about this.

I have many, many, many things to say on the top of all of this. But, like 80% of my long posts i might have shit answers and nothing will change. Prove me than i'm wrong there.

Do you even saw middle line. Its great for ganking. I tried with a terrain exact same like dota, trust me it doesn't work good due the mouse view. Second and the common problem is the triggers converted from GUI to JASS. I don't even know the region variables such as rect01 rect02 etc. what is count for. And i have no freaking idea how the creeps are move-attacking without a region plus their move is weired and also sometimes there is a nasty creep that sit there and doing aboslute nothing unless enemies are near. About items i can think about that. But we all know that hna is based on tomes NOT ITEMS like dota is. That doesn't mean i won't add new items and stuff. I asked several times in hive and even daniel how to fix the creep spawn issue sadly no one even cares. As for abilities. Some abilities need to be replaced, but i untill the bug with the trigger exist i'm hopeless. When this is fixed and when towers near castle are added to the anti-lame trigger the easy part with object can begin. If we make items like DOTA or HvA hna will not be good anymore and it will be just a replica of HvA or DotA.

P.S by the way I'm Not Doing a new map i just updating current. You know keep the legacy of this map.

EddieBG wrote:Do you even saw middle line. Its great for ganking.

This middle ? (i'm talking about the left part in this picture, of course)
I wasn't even sure you could walk in this water.
Also it's so much high risk to go this way. It's not large enough -> you get stuck. (especially because the game doesn't have good escape mecanism. Only thing is blink from warden or maybe BM illusions).
You're in lowground -> when you get on the other side of the map you see shit (i don't mind this if you make the central area bigger, like you can play and fight there, with some space).
I like the idea tho but i think it needs a rework.

EddieBG wrote:I tried with a terrain exact same like dota

Which was not my point. You could try with a LoL terrain it wouldn't work either.
My point was : those games have great gameplay, why not use some. I don't want a poor man DotA or LoL but a better HnA.
And you can change a terrain a bit more than just a few details here and there.

EddieBG wrote:But we all know that hna is based on tomes NOT ITEMS like dota is.

Maybe the problem is here. There is like 2 builds per hero (if i can call this build) at most. On agi hero you will max agi (maybe get hp tomes). On str you will go full str and a lot of agi if you have a bash. That's it.
Where is the fun, the unexpected in this ? There is none. We all know how which hero will play even before the game starts.
HnA could be about tomes AND items. So you have the liberty to play a stat build with tome or a utility/stats build with items.
I'll just name an exemple, the silence staff :
In HnA : 1600 gold, area of silence of 7 seconds, 180 cd cooldown (iirc).
In DotA2 : 4075 gold, single target silencer for 5 seconds + increase magic damage from 30%, cd 18 seconds. (+ the staff gives you some stats :+25 int, +30 attack speed and +30 damage).
What you could do in HnA2 : 1200 gold staff of silence : silence a single target for 3 seconds, cd is 25 seconds. Add +5 int and + 3 damage to the carrier of the staff.
- > upgradable into cursing staff : 2500 gold, silence a target for 5 seconds, cd is 22 seconds, burns 100 mana and does 100 damage. Add +10 int and +8 damage to the carrier of the staff.

Things like this would rebalance items, bring new ones and gives liberty to people to go for support/carry/whatever items or go for classic stuff + tomes.

EddieBG wrote:If we make items like DOTA or HvA hna will not be good anymore and it will be just a replica of HvA or DotA.

I agree, that's why we have to make our own items and balance them.

EddieBG wrote:I'm Not Doing a new map i just updating current.

Then why do you have issues with JASS triggers and so on ? I throught the current map was bug free.

I'm just curious, when we can play your wonderful superb map, Eddie?

Well to be honest every critical bug has ben fixed resently. The only part miss is making trigger abilities. We need to improve current state of heroes to become attractive etc. When they are done map is rdy. But like you said there is no point of it. Hots and other mobas are here now. And hna is so unpopular. I have an idea for a paladin. Replace his ulty resurrection with divine protection replace his divine shield to Blessing of Kings buff that gives bonus stats to alies. But sadly no one will agree and cared anymore. If you wish to help you could always contact me and discuss things that has to be done I have spend the most of the times deleting useless common stuff in object editor and import editor and it was very hard for a noob like me to fix Multiboard trigger(Now Game time is Hours, Minutes and Seconds    ) and antilaming castle towers that if u destroy them and u have barracks left castle is vulnerable + hero respawn are has ben moved to the fountain area and enemies will no longer get spawn kills    also fixed random creep stuck near barracks and towers. Suggest spells you like that can be found on hive workshop then maybe map will be playable very soon. However if you like same abilities and replace some like paly/dk ulty etc still can be done. I have an idea why instead of flying bat/griph pay with gold and wood at recruit center then get a golems or other neutral powerful creatures for push. That would be nice

P.S I'm back in business with new lap top Acer Aspire V 15 Nitro Black Edition with I7 8 cores up to 3.6Ghz and Nvidia GPU up to 4GB. Again please excuse my english!

EddieBG wrote:If you wish to help you could always contact me and discuss things that has to be done

If I'd like to waste my time, I can find another ways.

I'm trolling, I don't care about it, seriously. Don't be loudmouth, Eddie, it looks poorly.

I'm just going to leave it here:

Seems that last played dope version on new patch is not working as intended, but eddie manage to fix attacking tower and selling buying items, so we can play game, and manage to reduce size in almost 1 MB, we tested should work fine.

balvan is hardcoded in h&a map code, btw:

(if you remember such a thing like a "mega random").

This man reached unbelievable heights in his life.

P.S. Link from the screenshot: https://heroesandarmies.forumotion.com/t349p360-comments-about-newest-version#28825

So lets make some for new version, we are focusing on making game faster:

On my side i think global xp distribution need to be way higher, i find some triggers in map that can easily change to higher value.

-for me creep denying is bad thing, just because what hero composition you get you will have advantage, denying heroes is legit tactic and should be rewarded if done correctly not giving gold or xp (no need changes)

- gold pre creep kills need to be higher this is my reasoning lets say you have 100 creeps kill above your competitor calculate 40 gold you get on average so you get 4000 more gold in creeping that's actually very small number 4000 / 950 = you will get like + 21 agi dmg. Some heroes need balanced stunners are rly hard to deal if they got 2-3 so duration need to get fix, its bad think when you don't need to go higher stun above lvl 3.

Was thinking to get global distribution of gold higher but that's bad thing, because scaling of agi heroes will become more imba.

Maybe put night vision longer, just because of tactic of fog and element of surprises.

Lets get discussion to make game faster what you think ?

games need to be shorter i agree, global xp and more gold are good ideas
what about 1 lane 5v5/4v4? all on 1 lane and disable the other lane creepwaves. i think its been mentioned before but its a good idea for temporary fun/fast mode solution.

Hey, I'll try to makes changes until Saturday. I'll make list of planned changes tomorrow to start discussion.

Personally, I want ability to disable 1 lane temporary, start game at lvl 10.

I'm not sure 100% about increasing xp and gold, tbh. In the past we had "speedy mode" and it was bad as games were just endless.
Also, it may be "too fast" when one side starts to dominate too obviously, such games are not interesting either.