comments about newest version

Do you even saw middle line. Its great for ganking. I tried with a terrain exact same like dota, trust me it doesn't work good due the mouse view. Second and the common problem is the triggers converted from GUI to JASS. I don't even know the region variables such as rect01 rect02 etc. what is count for. And i have no freaking idea how the creeps are move-attacking without a region plus their move is weired and also sometimes there is a nasty creep that sit there and doing aboslute nothing unless enemies are near. About items i can think about that. But we all know that hna is based on tomes NOT ITEMS like dota is. That doesn't mean i won't add new items and stuff. I asked several times in hive and even daniel how to fix the creep spawn issue sadly no one even cares. As for abilities. Some abilities need to be replaced, but i untill the bug with the trigger exist i'm hopeless. When this is fixed and when towers near castle are added to the anti-lame trigger the easy part with object can begin. If we make items like DOTA or HvA hna will not be good anymore and it will be just a replica of HvA or DotA.

P.S by the way I'm Not Doing a new map i just updating current. You know keep the legacy of this map.

EddieBG wrote:Do you even saw middle line. Its great for ganking.

This middle ? (i'm talking about the left part in this picture, of course)
I wasn't even sure you could walk in this water.
Also it's so much high risk to go this way. It's not large enough -> you get stuck. (especially because the game doesn't have good escape mecanism. Only thing is blink from warden or maybe BM illusions).
You're in lowground -> when you get on the other side of the map you see shit (i don't mind this if you make the central area bigger, like you can play and fight there, with some space).
I like the idea tho but i think it needs a rework.

EddieBG wrote:I tried with a terrain exact same like dota

Which was not my point. You could try with a LoL terrain it wouldn't work either.
My point was : those games have great gameplay, why not use some. I don't want a poor man DotA or LoL but a better HnA.
And you can change a terrain a bit more than just a few details here and there.

EddieBG wrote:But we all know that hna is based on tomes NOT ITEMS like dota is.

Maybe the problem is here. There is like 2 builds per hero (if i can call this build) at most. On agi hero you will max agi (maybe get hp tomes). On str you will go full str and a lot of agi if you have a bash. That's it.
Where is the fun, the unexpected in this ? There is none. We all know how which hero will play even before the game starts.
HnA could be about tomes AND items. So you have the liberty to play a stat build with tome or a utility/stats build with items.
I'll just name an exemple, the silence staff :
In HnA : 1600 gold, area of silence of 7 seconds, 180 cd cooldown (iirc).
In DotA2 : 4075 gold, single target silencer for 5 seconds + increase magic damage from 30%, cd 18 seconds. (+ the staff gives you some stats :+25 int, +30 attack speed and +30 damage).
What you could do in HnA2 : 1200 gold staff of silence : silence a single target for 3 seconds, cd is 25 seconds. Add +5 int and + 3 damage to the carrier of the staff.
- > upgradable into cursing staff : 2500 gold, silence a target for 5 seconds, cd is 22 seconds, burns 100 mana and does 100 damage. Add +10 int and +8 damage to the carrier of the staff.

Things like this would rebalance items, bring new ones and gives liberty to people to go for support/carry/whatever items or go for classic stuff + tomes.

EddieBG wrote:If we make items like DOTA or HvA hna will not be good anymore and it will be just a replica of HvA or DotA.

I agree, that's why we have to make our own items and balance them.

EddieBG wrote:I'm Not Doing a new map i just updating current.

Then why do you have issues with JASS triggers and so on ? I throught the current map was bug free.

I'm just curious, when we can play your wonderful superb map, Eddie?

Well to be honest every critical bug has ben fixed resently. The only part miss is making trigger abilities. We need to improve current state of heroes to become attractive etc. When they are done map is rdy. But like you said there is no point of it. Hots and other mobas are here now. And hna is so unpopular. I have an idea for a paladin. Replace his ulty resurrection with divine protection replace his divine shield to Blessing of Kings buff that gives bonus stats to alies. But sadly no one will agree and cared anymore. If you wish to help you could always contact me and discuss things that has to be done I have spend the most of the times deleting useless common stuff in object editor and import editor and it was very hard for a noob like me to fix Multiboard trigger(Now Game time is Hours, Minutes and Seconds    ) and antilaming castle towers that if u destroy them and u have barracks left castle is vulnerable + hero respawn are has ben moved to the fountain area and enemies will no longer get spawn kills    also fixed random creep stuck near barracks and towers. Suggest spells you like that can be found on hive workshop then maybe map will be playable very soon. However if you like same abilities and replace some like paly/dk ulty etc still can be done. I have an idea why instead of flying bat/griph pay with gold and wood at recruit center then get a golems or other neutral powerful creatures for push. That would be nice

P.S I'm back in business with new lap top Acer Aspire V 15 Nitro Black Edition with I7 8 cores up to 3.6Ghz and Nvidia GPU up to 4GB. Again please excuse my english!

EddieBG wrote:If you wish to help you could always contact me and discuss things that has to be done

If I'd like to waste my time, I can find another ways.

I'm trolling, I don't care about it, seriously. Don't be loudmouth, Eddie, it looks poorly.

I'm just going to leave it here:

Seems that last played dope version on new patch is not working as intended, but eddie manage to fix attacking tower and selling buying items, so we can play game, and manage to reduce size in almost 1 MB, we tested should work fine.

balvan is hardcoded in h&a map code, btw:

(if you remember such a thing like a "mega random").

This man reached unbelievable heights in his life.

P.S. Link from the screenshot: https://heroesandarmies.forumotion.com/t349p360-comments-about-newest-version#28825

So lets make some for new version, we are focusing on making game faster:

On my side i think global xp distribution need to be way higher, i find some triggers in map that can easily change to higher value.

-for me creep denying is bad thing, just because what hero composition you get you will have advantage, denying heroes is legit tactic and should be rewarded if done correctly not giving gold or xp (no need changes)

- gold pre creep kills need to be higher this is my reasoning lets say you have 100 creeps kill above your competitor calculate 40 gold you get on average so you get 4000 more gold in creeping that's actually very small number 4000 / 950 = you will get like + 21 agi dmg. Some heroes need balanced stunners are rly hard to deal if they got 2-3 so duration need to get fix, its bad think when you don't need to go higher stun above lvl 3.

Was thinking to get global distribution of gold higher but that's bad thing, because scaling of agi heroes will become more imba.

Maybe put night vision longer, just because of tactic of fog and element of surprises.

Lets get discussion to make game faster what you think ?

games need to be shorter i agree, global xp and more gold are good ideas
what about 1 lane 5v5/4v4? all on 1 lane and disable the other lane creepwaves. i think its been mentioned before but its a good idea for temporary fun/fast mode solution.

Hey, I'll try to makes changes until Saturday. I'll make list of planned changes tomorrow to start discussion.

Personally, I want ability to disable 1 lane temporary, start game at lvl 10.

I'm not sure 100% about increasing xp and gold, tbh. In the past we had "speedy mode" and it was bad as games were just endless.
Also, it may be "too fast" when one side starts to dominate too obviously, such games are not interesting either.

By the way, probably we should disable "the final strike"

single lane?
i think the one lane thing should be a mode option, because in most cases it would heavily benefit ranged heroes.
So it could be that the melee heroes wont be able to creep anymore and just make it boring to play those melee heroes (staying back all the time isnt fun)

increasing gold?
i also wouldn't touch the gold of creeps. atm it's quite balanced imo. so heroes who aren't so good at creeping or are good in late game still have a chance to win. increasing gold will heavily benefit heroes who have wave and will maybe lead to conflicts within the team (who steals most creeps from others)
also increasing gold per min would be not the best otion because it would be maybe too good for agi heroes or make it too easy for them

global exp?
i like the idea, but it should be something like in HotS: you only get global exp when one of your team mates is actually near the dieing enemies, so when the whole team is back at the shop they dont get exp. so that bullying the enemy back for healing at the fountain is actually usefull (they loose exp with that).
but i think that's not so easy to code

more exp?
maybe creeps give a bit more exp instead of starting at lvl10?

final strike?
maybe make it smaller first?
i agree that it extends some games too much

duration of stuns?
idk how to fix that. 3,6sec stuns are waaaay to long, but on the other hand it's often not so easy to kill anyone without the stuns...
maybe beeing immune for stuns for 2sec after the last stun duration expired?
also not so easy to code and maybe not the best solution...

What is "global xp"?

Ace Ventura wrote:global exp?
i like the idea, but it should be something like in HotS: you only get global exp when one of your team mates is actually near the dieing enemies, so when the whole team is back at the shop they dont get exp. so that bullying the enemy back for healing at the fountain is actually usefull (they loose exp with that).
but i think that's not so easy to code

XP already works in this way, doesn't it? Players who stays near fountain gain less XP or don't gain at all.

global exp = all heroes from one team have the same amount of exp, but you and your team only get exp if you or one of your team mates are actually near the creeps

i think balvan meant that you get exp whereever you are, even if you are the the fountain of the other side of the map you get the exp (which would also lead to the fact that you and your team have the same exp, only when someone is dead he doesnt get exp)

Ace Ventura wrote:i think balvan meant that you get exp whereever you are, even if you are the the fountain of the other side of the map you get the exp (which would also lead to the fact that you and your team have the same exp, only when someone is dead he doesnt get exp)

Hmm, but it's not true. Even if nobody dies, levels of heroes are almost always different, because someone wastes more time near fountain or stays at the lane with higher number of mates.

1 lane mode is i think a nice option that we def should play.
you only need 1 stun or root/net to get the pressure of the melee on the ranged . just random/repick and 1 lane without final strike?

all the xp gained from the team is globaly collected by the whole teams(so also if just 1 player is in lane, the other 4 who are chilling at the fountain also get the same xp gained as the 1player in lane?). the only way to not get xp is a hero/tower kill that you didnt participate in .
is that a possibility? and also what about xp from the damn towerkills.

i dont think you should mess with the stuns. its fine the way it is.

so different opinions, this leads to nothing, lets make change and test see what works what not. i will make changes lets see what i do, don't flame me, im best player i know game inside out.

Damn, guys, I'm not sure I'll manage all the things today. I'll try finish my changes tomorrow.

In good combination of heroes alliance heroes have the advantages while they have Mountain King and Tinker. I'm trying few things on open3.09a. Now Mountain King and Tinker cannot use teleport while they have Avatar and Metamorphosis. Same thing like paladin ultimate. And since horde doesn't have spell immunity I think this is good. Besides it takes a lot of skill to take down such heroes when they are in the right player's hands

This will nerf their power a little bit, since all other heroes have to use antimagic shell to escape. And since Mk and Tinker can't use antimagic but they can use longer ability that gives them spell immunity. Its fair

imba.balvan wrote:So lets make some for new version, we are focusing on making game faster:

On my side i think global xp distribution need to be way higher, i find some triggers in map that can easily change to higher value.

-for me creep denying is bad thing, just because what hero composition you get you will have advantage, denying heroes is legit tactic and should be rewarded if done correctly not giving gold or xp (no need changes)

- gold pre creep kills need to be higher this is my reasoning lets say you have 100 creeps kill above your competitor calculate 40 gold you get on average so you get 4000 more gold in creeping that's actually very small number 4000 / 950 = you will get like + 21 agi dmg. Some heroes need balanced stunners are rly hard to deal if they got 2-3 so duration need to get fix, its bad think when you don't need to go higher stun above lvl 3.

Was thinking to get global distribution of gold higher but that's bad thing, because scaling of agi heroes will become more imba.

Maybe put night vision longer, just because of tactic of fog and element of surprises.

Lets get discussion to make game faster what you think ?

Agreed, but I wouldn't nerf stuns, I would nerf the cool down of anti-magic potions or allow more items that provide magic-immunity. Right now, when the enemy combo excists out of 3 stunners or more, there's practically no way you can survive. Lvl 15 takes a while, antimagic has a big cooldown and some heroes can dispel it easily (e.g Naga Sea Witch or Archimonde).

I would also advice to look into the random system: make sure each team gets the same amount of stunners and healers, so there won't be shitty random that pre-decide the game before one even goes to lane. Of course, downside is that it's not truely random anymore. I prioritize gameplay over truely random heroes, but that's my opinion.

@Ed, I believe avatar ultimate and being able to teleport are w3 basic mechanics. Sure, removing that is one way to go, or you make Horde heroes with avatar like Grom Memescream, able to be immune as well. That would be a great way to buff this weak hero.

Speaking of Grom Memescrean, he could use a buff. More base agi and more agi gain per level. Right now, it's a hero you'd be smart to repick or plug when you get him.

Top priorities are first these. Prevent Mk/Tinker to abuse their ultimates to escape from battles then fix annoying archmage ultimate that cause huge fps drops. I think maybe Saturday or Sunday I will have these. Next thing will be maybe reduce stuns like entangling roots duration and cast range same as SH hex and possible make Healing wave only to heal allied heroes since its op. Druid polymorph will be replaced with cyclone. Here is the tricky part. While u can attack hexed hero he can move slow and could somehow escape depends on his team, while with cyclone you cannot attack the hero when hes on the air, but it gives you plenty of time to surround that hero and when he falls to the ground 99% of the time he dies. Both can be dispelled.

Panda Earth Storm Fire the Storm unit will have replaced cyclone with chain lighting or lighting strike.

Since on pubbot we get more lags than usual. We get few when I host too, but I'm ordering 200mbps to improve hosting even better

And besides polymorph was never a druid ability, unlike shadow hunter which is a shaman and hex is a shaman spell. As for other changes they will be coming soon. I will try to make every hero valued not useless ^^

EddieBG wrote:fix annoying archmage ultimate that cause huge fps drops.

Perhaps to solve Archmage you should change it to a Frost Nova with splash damage perhaps. I don't see how you could decrease the FPS drops, if you add a cast time it will only increase the FPS drop length.

EddieBG wrote:Next thing will be maybe reduce stuns like entangling roots duration and cast range same as SH hex and possible make Healing wave only to heal allied heroes since its op.

I think like I said before I don't like this direction: nerfing everything that seems slighty imbalanced. I'd rather add counter mechanics than nerfing everything to the ground. Healing wave isn't OP, since with every bounce it heals less. Druid and Paladin are far stronger in terms of heals. Seriously, don't touch that. Besides, healers are always banned in our games, for whatever reason.

EddieBG wrote:Druid polymorph will be replaced with cyclone and besides polymorph was never a druid ability, unlike shadow hunter which is a shaman and hex is a shaman spell. As for other changes they will be coming soon. I will try to make every hero valued not useless ^^

Alliance already has a huge cyclone as ult, don't need a single target cyclone on QWE. Not only does it cause balance problems, it also makes no sense to remove hex. Agreed, druids never had that ability lorewise and in melee map, but humans do have that ability. Since Alliance is a combination between Human and Elf, I don't see why a druid can't have a human spell.

EddieBG wrote:Panda Earth Storm Fire the Storm unit will have replaced cyclone with chain lighting or lighting strike.

No.

Well as I said we start with these first. Doesn't mean I don't know the problems at all. And besides druid is a night elf not human. Buffs will come too. 710-720 Cast Range on Keeper entangling roots is way too op, same with hex, not to mention hex duration is 5.6sec while roots is 7seconds. Maybe you have point about healing wave, but who on earth plays panda? Every time its repicked. You can check previous replays panda is rare pick and most of times its always repicked. I don't like Copy and Paste same abilities. Like Lets give Beastmaster avatar and CL spell immunity. First I start with nerfs second with buffs. And counter attacks will come with better kit abilities that are not useless on longer games. Otherwise lets get rid of all abilities and use only basic attacks.

EddieBG wrote:Well as I said we start with these first. Doesn't mean I don't know the problems at all. And besides druid is a night elf not human. Buffs will come too. 710-720 Cast Range on Keeper entangling roots is way too op, same with hex, not to mention hex duration is 5.6sec while roots is 7seconds. Maybe you have point about healing wave, but who on earth plays panda? Every time its repicked. You can check previous replays panda is rare pick and most of times its always repicked. I don't like Copy and Paste same abilities. Like Lets give Beastmaster avatar and CL spell immunity. First I start with nerfs second with buffs. And counter attacks will come with better kit abilities that are not useless on longer games. Otherwise lets get rid of all abilities and use only basic attacks.

Are you talking to an imiginary opponent or me? Nothing you just said made any sense to the points I made. Panda is a fine hero with a fine ultimate, not broken and not bad, I don't know what drugs u took from NL.

All u do was complain about grom, the way I see it he got no issues except that the enemy team is just too good sometimes with the random and the prevent him to creep. Lower cooldown of antimagic isn't good either, because it will make players to abuse it which will end like that game 5v4 that you thought you won with extra play but you didn't. You didn't say anything else that you only want grom buff like give him more agility. Its an open map you can try the stuff you like. I will try few things and see how it goes. Some combos in the right hands of players can be a nightmare its a team strategy.

Either we try to make heroes valued with abilities not only basic stats or no changes at all and leave the game as it is which is the reason why people quit that game in the past 4-5 years ago.